I have been even more sporadic here than usual, and I am saddened by all that has transpired wrt mudd. There are such huge hearts, yet such delicate souls on this forum, and it's hard and I hate seeing the hurt and betrayal.

AG, TN and SL: thank you for all that you do on the forum and in particular in this situation.

I wasn't involved with Mudd at all and can only imagine how scary it must have been to find out that someone you thought you knew turned out to be a complete fraud. Just wanted to send hugs to all who were affected by this. I hope that those of you who said you were withdrawing, don't withdraw. As Morgs said, 98% of the people here are genuine and those who are will support those who get hurt by those who aren't.

Thanks to Jillann, TN, SL, and AG for acting so swiftly but also for being so open and honest about it. That helped me a lot.

Starry,
We cross posted yesterday and I didn’t get a chance to say welcome back! It’s nice to see you around the place again, I’ve missed you!

quote:

I don't know how the forum rules address this, but members of this forum should not be allowed to pm another member about suicide or plans to even do so (or having done so). Doing so should be grounds for immediate dismissal from the forum, not as punishment, but because the person who is contemplating suicide is already at an extreme level of instability.

TAS,

The rules and guidelines are very clear that what Mudd did, even if it had been a serious attempt at suicide, was not allowed and was grounds for dismissal. It was why she was banned. I have included excerpts from the rules below and links to the full topics. I would encourage everyone to read these topics and familiarize yourself with these rules, if you have not already done so.

From Our Mission

Messages containing suicidal threats or suicidal actions [are not allowed].

From Sensitive Issues Guidelines

• It is prohibited to mention that you are intending to suicide using a certain method and citing a time and place.

....

Engaging in any of the above behaviours means an immediate loss of Membership.

MH,
I haven’t had a chance to say hello since you have been back posting, but its been good to see you again, and I hope you can stay.

Thanks Outsider!

AG (and others), I also wanted to thank you for starting this thread and for being so transparent, also for giving people a space to discuss their feelings and what happened. I believe that is healthy and helpful for everyone. I spent a lot of my life in an environment where there were a lot of secrets and behind the scenes stuff going on, so I guess like Liese I find unexplained bannings a bit triggering.

I've been slow to reply to this thread because I've been feeling really distressed over those who were hurt by this and unsure how to express that, partly because I never did take mudd at face value myself. There was a surreal, not to say incoherent aspect to her writing that made me think much of it was not to be taken literally. Somehow that didn't really bother me, because I thought whoever she was, she was clearly in distress over *something* and that if reaching out and connecting here in some way made her feel supported, so much the better. I did not think of it in the sense that perhaps there were people who would be hurt or exploited or that she might have malicious intentions. I can be very live and let live about things and tend to think there's a sense in which "lies" can be symbolic communication more than deception.

I wasn't aware of any of the (apparently extensive) pm'ing that was going on, along with the potential for deeper hurt. Now I just feel really sad for everyone and protective of people here. I wonder if it would have been better to have pointed out in some way the things that weren't adding up? But I'm not sure an accuracy police is what is needed around here.

I kind of agree with BLT about the importance of the questions she raised. I don't have any clear answers off the top of my head either. Maybe a discussion of how to identify safe-ish people online would be good? But I don't even know where one would start with such a topic.

Thanks for reading. Sorry if too much about me.

Oh my. I'm so sorry for those of you who must have been so frightened and worked so hard to get help to Mudd when it was all a lie (AG,TN, and Jillian). And I'm so sorry for how hurtful this has to be to people here who were close to Mudd (or rather her online persona).

And AG, thank you for explaining what had happened - I hadn't been around for a while, then saw that Mudd had "left the hospital," then I saw some posts that confused me but made me think she was back in the hospital, and I thought oh no, she took on too much too fast, I hope she's ok, etc.

If Mudd wanted to write a novel, she could have done so without hurting people who already have more than their share of hurt. If she wanted to play a character in an on-line game, there are places for that too. This is the LAST place that anyone should be playing that kind of game.

I know most of you are real, maybe now all of you are real. I've seen a number of people who post here on good days and on very bad days, and it is heartwarming how even on very bad days, they will reach out to someone else who is hurting (RT, you are one of many of the people I've seen do this).

Someone said we need to learn techniques to tell which people on here are for real and which aren't. I have a feeling there isn't a really a way to do that - I can't even tell in real life when I meet people and know their real names a lot of times.

I hate to say this, because most people here could really use someone to trust, but everyone needs to be careful - I mean really careful, I mean I don't know when an exception should ever be made -about giving out their personal info. Isn't that so sad?

Oh, and turtle, the stories from the hospital didn't ring true to me either, but I thought maybe there was a place where things were done that way. Just FYI so if someone else talks about it here, so you don't immediately think they are a fake/liar, I was in a psych facility for over 2 months and I had a cell phone (they took mine and gave me one of theirs that could not text, take photos, or record) and internet access (things like facebook, maybe all social sites, were blocked, but we had our regular email). It was funny to watch the men get mad at the women internet window shopping, and the women get mad at the men for being so critical when they were just doing something different - sports scores and stock pages mostly.

All of you who worried about Mudd for so many months - you are good people.

I have been following the last few days of posts but not been able to really respond since I have been away at a training and just got home. I thought a lot about this last night in my motel room, as I rolled a part of the night unable to sleep, and then also on my drive back home.

First, I also wanted to thank AG, TN, and SL for your earnest efforts to show caring and compassion, as well as sharing the truth with all of us. I deeply admire that.

Since I am newer to the forum in the last few months, I also did not know Mudd really other than a few replies she had made to my threads and one simple PM with her. Nonetheless, I have found myself range from bewilderment to sadness to fear to anger, and, like others, have definitely found myself triggered by all this.

Betrayal, deception, and preying on the vulnerabilities and trust of others on this forum, so many of whom (myself included) have trust issues and have been abused chronically, feels like one of the worst forms of perpetration. There can be no excuse for such prolonged and reckless hurting of others, whose main intention and hopes have been to find mutual support and encouragement on the healing journey.

I think what hurts and pains me even more is seeing the backlash of this senseless wounding, as expressed by several in this thread--that we need to be suspicious of each other, that others cannot be fully trusted, that people feel the need to remind each other that they are really genuine and not fake, that their stories of anguish and struggle are not some sort of sick fabrication. Believe me, I can understand this reaction, especially for those of us who have known the bitter anguish of betrayal and perpetration of abuse by those we thought we should be able to trust the most--whether it was parents, authority figures, therapists, friends.

Yet on another level, it is all so cruel and wrong. That is what kept me up a lot last night--my anger that one person could infuse fear and distrust into what has otherwise been such a wonderful, supportive, amazing place of support and encouragement for so many of us. I know we cannot be naive and that we do need to be careful, and I honor that wisdom and call to be discerning. But I also know that for me, personally, I have found some mutually supportive friends here, who like me, share the excruciating path of struggling to work through the wounds we bear, and who I feel deep admiration, respect, love, and trust with. I am grateful for what we have here, and I refuse to let one jaded, disturbed, and warped person rob me of what is good and special and healing.

Thank you for listening.

Amber....

That was an awesome post.

Hugs
TN

Amber you summed it up perfectly

I've been slow to respond to this thread because I've found it very painful and triggering, not because I knew Mudd but due to a betrayal of trust I experienced by a former therapist. And also having experienced the loss of someone close to me due to suicide.

When we're victims of this sort of betrayal, it seems natural to want to retreat, hide, and blame ourselves for being so trusting and caring. It's taken a long time in my subsequent therapy to let go of that self-blame and realize I was doing the right thing in the relationship, the normal, human response of caring for someone who seemed genuine.

In the end, it's the one who betrays that loses out the most because he or she has lost the potential for many enriching relationships, and instead is left with nothing, and sadly may not even realize the loss due to being so self-centered, but all of those victims need to look within themselves and recognize their own kindness and compassion as a gift. It's what makes us who we are.

And I am who I say I am!

I must say I wasn't surprised that Mudd is banned. At the begining we were pm a couple of times. But something was wrong. So I stopped. I must say that after that I didn't read much of her stuff. I am sorry for all of you hurting, especially AV. But would like to say, that many of you here on the board I find authentic as much as virtual life can be...We need to believe, here are sincere and honest people. Without that, we loose hope and we loose a place to feel heard, we loose a place to give our feelings the voice. I need to believe that. And I truly believe one ''bad'' person shouldn't destroy the majority of good persons here. It should sound sth like: one bad moment can not destroy so many good ones.


You see... I think I never was truly accepted in this community. I wasn't always heard or got really poor support...maybe this was due, that I don't post a lot, since english is not my first language and am shy because i think no one will understand me. But when I was, I was authentic. I care for you and i feel you. I read you constantly.

I am glad that action on mudd was done. That she is banned. I also hope she will admit to herself she has big problems and will seek for help.

Take care all off you.

(((Ninna))) thanks for being so open about how you feel. I know I have been on the receiving end of your support before and have always appreciated it greatly. I hope you'll give us another chance.

(((ninna))) i care, too! i think your english is really good, in fact, it's so good i didn't know it wasn't your first language! i hope you stick around and can give us another chance.

Hey Ninna,

I care too! I've never felt like you didn't belong. In fact, I've always felt like you fit right in. I know it doesn't always feel that way when you don't have the benefit of seeing people's faces and expressions but I do hope you will hang around.

OMG, I am so so deeply touched, because of your all responses. I didn't expected them. I love you all.

Please, I didn't mean to pressure anyone, you don't need another chance from me. I already appreciate all of you.

With writing about my acceptance, I really exposed myself, but was trying also to tell you, that you are not important just to your local areas or country. You are important to the whole world. I see you as brave. Really brave!

Thank you Draggers, Cat, CD, Liese, The Kid and AV, for letting me know I am also part of this.

Huggs!!!

Hi Ninna!
I'm Rebuilding Me. Nice to meet you.

((((Ninna))))

((Ninna))
How very generous of you to reach out to help others here knowing what you had experienced here. I want to add to the chorus of people who would love to have you back posting.

AG

This matter has been bothering me. I know I am new to posting but I have been reading a long time.

I am glad Mudd was banned. About as glad as anyone can be for a painful thing that hurt so many people. I guess what I try to say is that I do think it was the right decision as she broke the rules and she should be banned for that reason alone.

But to say all this about her being a liar and all the implications and assumptions about her. I don't know. I find I am confused. I am also a little frightened. She was clearly in need of help. Why judge her as a liar? This is not the right place for her, but the judgement on her is a little bewildering for me. None of us would want to be treated that way if we were to break a rule and leave the forum. I know someone who successfully committed suicide and their last posts online were quite "cheerful." It is actually one of the signs someone may act on their thoughts that they will become that way. I don't know if she was faking suicidal thoughts or not, or for what reason that she was acting in all the boundary violating ways that she was.

I am not saying she was honest. She clearly was dishonest. But we can't possibly be the judges of why. Maybe she had one part posting one part and another part living out a different life. We just don't know. It's the nature of an online forum. Everyone should be very careful.

In a place for people who are working on their stuff, I guess I am surprised to see such harsh judgment on someone that clearly no one really seemed to know.

She needed to go, she needed help. I am very glad that both things happened and for the compassion people tried to show.

I guess the is all struck a nerve with me as I have been recently misunderstood in my own life offline. I shut down to most everyone around me and everyone assumed the wrong reasons why I was acting the way I was. It hurt very badly to know the ways I was judged when I was simply struggling with my own stuff and I did not really know how to connect with people in healthy ways until things changed for me.

Just my thoughts and observations from my own very messed up mind.

Lizzie you bring up some good points. It is true that no one knows exactly what was going on for Mudd except she herself. I have thought of the many possibilities that you present here as explanations for what happened with her and have wondered how she is doing etc. I like your non judgmental stance with Mudd.

Forgive me because I am in dbt and we have had non judgmental/ mindfulness drilled into our heads -

For me the this stance seems important to both "sides". On the one hand I see where Mudd obviously has some pain in her somewhere to have done what she did here. Why bother doing something so elaborate if there was not some gain? and if it was for attention then my heart goes out to her for being in such a lonely place. On the other hand as you say Lizzie wounded people come here looking for support, advice, camaraderie and to help other people out who may need help etc. So I can understand where some here may feel very used and misguided (made a fool of or humiliated) even if that was not the intention.

I guess I sort of see both sides. I hope that people can find a way to be kind to one another concerning this.

I think how anyone chooses to react is fine. No guilt in anger or thoughts that at the time may not be virtuous, altruistic empathy in its greatest form.

totally baffled i am.....

Zombie thread, back to life from the depths, definitely do not take visa. I shouldn't have replied. Back to Netflix.

Hi Lizzie
I wanted to responds to you as I am sure at least some of this is directed to me.

First, I want to reiterate that my reasons for laying out the whole story was the fact that a lot of members were very confused as to why Mudd was banned and were triggered and upset. In addition, because of the situations Mudd had been posting about, many people were concerned for her safety, especially with losing her support. I felt it was important, and Shrinklady concurred, that people be informed both so they understood why Mudd was banned and that she was safe.

I think that many people did express compassion for Mudd and the wish that she get the help she needed. Yes, there was some anger that was expressed but Mudd had lied to people for month's about a hospitalization that never took place. And about which people had invested a lot of time, energy and compassion getting her through. Is there any wonder that people were hurt, angry and upset and may have needed to express that?

I witnessed first hand the distress and powerlessness both TN and Jillann went through thinking Mudd's life was in danger, and I'm sorry, but my compassion tends to run more towards the people Mudd hurt. I do NOT understand why she should be the focus. Hasn't she already had enough of the time and energy of this community?

If I had wanted to be truly vindictive or vengeful, I could have given out all the info I had to track down, such as her name, address and Facebook page but I did none of that.

And yeah, it bothered me to read this. Welcome to the forums.

This seems an unusual stance for a new member to take - maybe an ip needs checking and the thread closed!!

I have to agree. Is it possible to close this topic once and for all? I, personally, do not wish to have this thread back at the top of the list.

Respectfully,

The Kid

let's move on from this twisted and hurtful fantasy

Oh my, why? Why, do we need to revisit this?

Mudd came here and lied for several months. People who lie are referred to as liars. People who lie hurt others and themselves.

If anyone does find out that the IP address is connected to Mudd, would you let us know?

There have been a lot of new people here lately. I'm more cautious to reach out than usual because of what happened with Mudd.